Posts by Doubting Bro

89

why the watchtower is so short of money

by pepperheart in

the watchtower is so short of money because they have to pay for all the upkeep of so many branch offices around the world.because so many of the branch offices are in very poor countries and they are not balancing the budgets.

Doubting Bro

Slim,

Where are you getting your figures? I pulled the SDA annual report and they took in 3.4b (I'll just US dollars since that's what they reported). They have 20m members who tithe. Dividing that gets to $170 not 200-300. Using that number as an average JW contribution gets you to 1.35ish billion NOT 2b. But, I would argue that 1.3b number is what they wish they were getting from contributions. You cite the UK contributions since they have to disclose that. But you are trying to use contributions from one of the weathliest countries with a large JW presence and say that's the worldwide average. That doesn't make ANY sense! 2b annual income is not in any way a "reasonable estimate". If you want to use something, maybe half of the UK contributions is a reasonable worldwide average. Mayb 2/3rds? No clue but I know using the UK contributions is not a good estimate.

This is what drives me nuts about your collapse discussions. You try to make economic arguements without any sound economic basis. It's like the WT arguing against science!

We know the WT doesn't have a tithing system and their main source of income in the past was selling books and mags to JWs who in turn tried to recoup some of that money by selling to the public. Obviously, that's put a major dent in the income coming in. We know they are selling assets and downsizing. Even on the local level with the KHs. That's not a sign of an organization that is in rapid expansion mode. No one is saying that can't collapse nor is anyone here saying that they are doing great. But, you take such leaps in logic that now they are collapsing. No, last year they grew. Not by much, but growth is not collapse. Will they die one day? Sure, everything does. Is it by the end of the year? I'll wage my life savings the answer is no.

89

why the watchtower is so short of money

by pepperheart in

the watchtower is so short of money because they have to pay for all the upkeep of so many branch offices around the world.because so many of the branch offices are in very poor countries and they are not balancing the budgets.

Doubting Bro

You really can't compare the operations of SDA to the WT especially when it comes to spending. I just pulled their annual report (the detail is impressive) for the SDA. They collect over 3b in tithes alone! They operate hospitals (180 globally), nursing homes (121), clinics (441), orphanages (21) and schools (both university and primary education - I didn't see the grand total but its hundreds). They also have TV stations and radio stations and a 700m a year food sales operation!

What exactly does the WT operate? They have printing facilities (a lot less than they used to) which I agree are costly to run. Branch operations have been consolidated. Oh, oh, JW broadcasting (lol). But they don't do ANYTHING like what the SDA's do! How can you possibly compare the 2 entities when it comes to expenditures?

Part of the consolidations is because buildings are expensive to maintain. Selling them off not only liquidates the asset if they need cash but more importantly reduces their annual spend going forward.

Travel costs? LOL - what line of work are you in? My company has 5b (US) in revenue each year. Our operating expenses were around 700m (US) not including the cost of good sold. Granted, we are not a printer. But, we do pay our employees and by the way actually pay taxes unlike the freeloading religious entities. Yet you expect us to buy that the WT is spending over 2b a year with NO salary expenses other than a dorm room and board? The 200m figure sounds about right for their expenses for those in the Special Order (CO/Missionaries/Bethel). I'll even give you another 200m for upkeep of the physical plant, electricity and materials. Hell, I'll even give you an additional 200m (which is a lot of money by the way) or stuff I'm not thinking about. So, 600m?

If they are spending 2b per year, someone is flat out stealing the money. Even they can't generate that kind of waste.

Of course, if they were like the SDAs and actually gave a detailed accounting of their expenses, we'd know exactly what their financial condition is. Since they don't, then we can speculate to our hearts content!

37

Why are they announcing 2019 conventions so early?

by Richard_I in

jw
friends

i was just told there will be international conventions in canada in 2019. .

so i looked at jw.org and i see that there's a whole bunch of conventions now listed on the site for 2019.. isn't this odd?

normally we were told the location of conventions during the first week of january.. did they realize there was less in attendance in the 2018 conventions, and want to give ppl more time to make travel arrangements??

Doubting Bro

Assuming they are still 3 day events?

36

S 147 for august 2018

by obarac in

anyone have s 147 for august?.

rumors about big announcement.. any hear about that..

Doubting Bro

How lazy is Bethel getting? They don't bother updating their crappy artwork that was done FOR FREE?

112

Congregation Reassignments in Ohio?

by My Name is of No Consequence in

from what i understand, a letter was read this past week in regards to congregation reassignments and that the elders want to meet with people at their homes to tell them where they have been reassigned.

obviously, this would be due to the merging and dissolution of congregations.

can anyone confirm this?.

Doubting Bro

I think what is interesting is they had a talk on the RC that had a video that depicted a KH being reassigned and the reactions of the various members. To me, that signals that actions such as we are seeing in OH will continue to play out. From a business point of view, now that they really own the buildings (sort of) ,its much easier for them to right size the KHs to maximize their usage. It makes sense but if you really are concentrated on growing, why would you close shops. The money grab a few years ago and the promise to build new or renovate existing KHs was to allow them to cash out these under used assets. But, what I think surprised them is the blowback they are getting. But, it's been my experience that most will complain then comply. The average JW that somewhat believes will be annoyed but its not like they are going to leave. The consequences of leaving are so high.

Morph, one counter point. The last Pew survey indicated that the JWs in the US are getting old and continue to skew that way. Sure, you see plenty of young folks at some congregations, but there's a ton of grey hair or no hair out there.

I think the long term outlook is significant decrease, but the short to medium outlook is minimial growth followed by slight decreases. It will be death by a thousand cuts and that takes a long time. I hope I'm wrong and that the whole thing blows up tomorrow!

68

Cart work faces headwinds.

by lastmanstanding in

my little bethel bird has whispered in my ear some encouraging news.

it has been reported to the canadian branch that some witnesses doing cart work had police stop them from carting in public parks.

the direction sent to the southern ontario congregations is to cease carting until further notice.. this is no joke.. have a jw-free day..

Doubting Bro

lastmanstanding - that's hilarious!!! Didn't they have something in a drama where a 1st century elder was reviewing the congregation's publisher record cards? I wouldn't put it past them.

68

Cart work faces headwinds.

by lastmanstanding in

my little bethel bird has whispered in my ear some encouraging news.

it has been reported to the canadian branch that some witnesses doing cart work had police stop them from carting in public parks.

the direction sent to the southern ontario congregations is to cease carting until further notice.. this is no joke.. have a jw-free day..

Doubting Bro

Where I live, the cart work is very much alive. The local congregation has a schedule posted on the "information board" that shows the times and individuals assigned. One is set up near the courthouse where there is some foot traffic and the other is set up at the local train station. They also participate in a metro plan where they set the cart up in populated areas.

Most JWs I know love the carts. It's super easy time. You stand or sit around, drink coffee and occasionally talk to people. If I were still going in FS, I'd be spending the bulk of my hours doing that instead of knocking on doors.

51

Don't even try it!

by JTrottigy in

jw
friends

there are many here who think they can infiltrate my web-site.

be warned that we administrators of jwtalk call the listed congregation on your application for membership in our site to verify if they know you!.

some of you have slipped through the cracks and got into our site, but rest assured, we will find you out and ban you!.

Doubting Bro

LOL. How do you define win?

27

Corporate Virtue Signalling At Your Expense

by Simon in

the latest trend seems to be that you can't go to any store without being asked for money.. no, not the money for the things you went in there to purchase, extra money for the store to donate to charity.. yes, that's right, the big-name stores, often making $millions in profits, ask you to give them extra money so that they can give it to charity and get some publicity about how awesome they are so that they'll look good to their customers, like, erm, you.. it seems to have ramped up more in the last year or so and frankly, it pisses me off.

if i want to donate to some cause, i'll give the money straight to them.

i hate that it puts people on the spot to guilt them into donating and imagine some people on a tight budget may give even when they can't really afford it.. often you don't know what the charities really are (it's vague like "to help children") or how the money will be spent or even how much will go on the people it's supposedly to help (charity is a multi $billion industry, some just exist to pay themselves).. so what to do?

Doubting Bro

I just say not today and move on. Not really concerned with what a random stranger thinks about me. It's not an efficient way to support whatever charity you like but I'd imagine the charities still benefit. I'm sure the stores get something out of it or they wouldn't do it

6

A question regarding RC/DC changes

by no-zombie in

with the rumored changes or deletion of the regional/district conventions ... does anyone know if the organization will cancel them all together or just reduce their duration from 3 to 2 days, so they can be slotted into local assembly halls easier?.

no-zombie.

Doubting Bro

No changes from any reputable sources. More wishful thinking than anything else. THey make a ton of cash off those. When they get to the

point he RCs stop being profitable they will cut but not before.